Have a PRS Archon 25 Combo that I love, but the Celestion G12T-75 has GOT TO GO. Its Thin and Fizzy on the high gain channel and it makes the amp sound super cheap which I know its capable of better. Suggestions on replacement? Want more mids, Tight bass, and a Smoother Top end without so much Fizz.
Would be nice to have a Supro Tremoverb Character for Clean and a Dumble ODS character for gain.
Currently thinking:
Vet 30
Retro 30
ET65
and I have been in contact with Two Rock looking to purchase a WGS TR 12-65b Would love opinions on that one.
I hear ya … the G12T-75’s are some stiff nasty sounding speakers … hard to believe PRS skimped sooo bad on speaker choice … but then again, PRS pickups usually leave a lot to be desired too. Anyway …
“Want more mids, Tight bass, and a Smoother Top end without so much Fizz.”
“Mids” is too generic a term … are you talking more lower-mid organic warmth (like 200-400Hz) … more upper-midrange bite (2-4K) … or more straight-up midrange honk (like 800Hz - 2K)?
I would just say more so than the 75’s. Im not too fond of the 1k nasal spike but would say just an overall mid hump. That’s kind said of why I mentioned dumble overdrive and supro cleans because I love whatever is happening with those mid ranges. If that makes since.
Yeah amp is perfect except for speaker, I agree about PRS pickups too. Is seems like they would be a perfect company for a lot of things but always epic fail on one very specific component.
I am very interested in your speaker recommendation as well. I just purchased an Archon 25 watt combo and would like to get rid of some of the midrange honk and tighten th bass up a bit. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
So a quick update. I tried out a Celestion G12K-100 and the results were interesting. It fixed the Top end of my problem litterally ZERO fizzyness. However I think the emphasis with that speaker was in the low mids which made the amp sound really honky since I feel like the focus of the Amp itself is on the lower mids. just kinda sounded super round and not in a good way. So Im thinking that something that is Vintage 30 voiced will work well since thats whats in the full size PRS cabs. I ordered a Panama AV30 Simply because it was cheap ($40) on sale on Reverb.com. So will see how a vintage 30 voice sounds. Im thinking that the Retro 30 is probably the way to go since the Amp is already on the Darker side. Ill let you know what the results are.
Thanks for the update. I had an Archon 50 combo that I installed a V30 in. It was an improvement over the G12T75, but still had a bit too mid honk for me. For that reason I started looking at WGS speakers as an option. I play a Les Paul, Custom 22, and a Singlecut. My issue is that I like my cleans to have some sparkle on the top and nice tight low end. On the lead channel I don’t want scooped mids, but no honk since the guitars I use already have a lot of mids. I think you may be right about the Retro 30. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance.
The WGS ET90 is almost the exact same speaker as the Two Rock WGS TR 12-65b … and yes, for what y’all are looking for, I would say that would be an excellent choice.
Thanks for the input and response. How will the ET90 react to low end when installed in a semi-open back cab? The Archon combo is not a closed back combo. I was wondering if the speaker might get a little loose in the low end. Thanks!
The ET90 will stay tight in semi-open.
As for freq charts, I don’t think they have published one in quite a while … and honestly those things can be terribly misleading, because freq response varies so much based on volume, cabinet details, and, especially in the case of tube amps, the impedance coupling/reflected impedance of a given tube output stage to the speaker.
Another update. The Panama AV30 sounded pretty good but wouldn’t fit in the mounting holes of the amp so it’s going back. However I learned a lot about the amp in going from the T75 to the K100 to the vintage 30 voicing.
So I’m going to change my theory a little bit in what will be best suited. So the more that I try with the Archon the more I’m learning about the frequencies where the amp lives. The main peak frequencies lie in the central mids and the low Mids. Therefore it needs a speaker with a high mid spike to balance it out and give it the articulation and the cut that it needs. All the clips I keep seeing on YouTube where the amp sounds good it is paired with Mesa V30’s for that same reason.
I went to a local shop where they have suhr and two rock cabs so got to hear a bit of WGS speakers. So I tried the two rock wgs and the vet 30. The vet 30 sounded really good with a suhr badger 35 no fizz or harsh frequencies and to my surprise not overly middy. The two rock which is based off of the ET90 according to Vaughn, is a little more low mid and middle mid focused where the archon lives. So I would disagree in choosing an ET variant as it will just pile on more honk range and make it kind of flubby. You def need an upper mid focus with the Archon. So I’d say vet 30 or retro 30 and think of it more in terms of brightness. Retro is higher peak than vintage 30 and vet 30 has lower peak so I think that you will avoid the bad frequencies you don’t like by going with either of those. So if you want bright go with retro if you want darker go with vet 30. I’m also thinking that an invader 50 might be good as well. That’s what I’m leaning towards actually since I’m looking for a sweeter top end but still wtb that upper mid hump that the Archon needs.
Hey Guys, So turns out that I had an old G12T-75 from another amp laying around that I thought was complete Junk until I realized that the tone of these has changed in the last 20 years. Turns out my old one is a Made in England T-75 giving much better mids than the new ones. already sounds soooooo much better. But Im still looking for something different.
This Vid gives an example of how different the old ones are from the new ones. Supposedly the old T-75s sound more like Greenbacks or G12-65’s. So my analysis that a ET65 or ET90 wouldnt be a good choice is not neccessarily accurate. Apparently Anything will be better than the speaker thats in there its just based off of your prefference. I just ordered my Veteran 30 to smooth out the Highs so I will let yall know what comes of that. Was really impressed by how it responded with the Badger 35 that I played.
BTW my comment on the ET90 being Flubby might not be accurate as I tried out that speaker on a Two Rock TS1 Dumble clone so kind of a flubby amp anyways. So disregard that statment. Sorry Vaughn for trying to do your job for you
Also if it helps with other recomendations, I compared the Gain chanel of the Archon to other preamps using my Line 6 Helix. The one that kept coming up as very similar was the Soldano SLO-100. Only difference was the Archon had a Tighter bass response. So hopefully thats a helpful note for other recomendations. Anything that will sound good with a Soldano will probably sound good with an Archon.
Great information. Thanks for posting. I am leaning towards the Vet 30 right now, but have not ruled out the Retro 30. I will be interested in your results when you get the Vet 30 installed. Are you running your Archon with the 5881 tubes? I changed mine out to EL34’s to get a little more crunch out of the amp. It sounds better with the stock speaker to my ears. Still a little too much mid honk for me, but more manageable. Thanks for all the input and information. Hoping to order a speaker sometime this weekend.
I don’t think the Archos 25 is designed to handle EL34 types. The OT impedance load would be very high and there may not be enough PSU current. I’d think that would make them sound compressed, dull and fizzy. I’d stick with 6L6/5881 types.
You might then want a brighter speaker like the ET65 or ET90 for that Dumblesk voicing. From what I hear in various demos, the Retro 30 sounds somewhat like a Fane – nice sound for sure.
Hey Guys, Veteran 30 is installed but also sliced my main fretting finger same day putting up christmas lights…
So needless to say its going to be a few days before i can really tell you what it sounds like. Ill keep you updated.
The SPL graphs I captured from the WGS Mesa Recto clips show the HM75 is just like the ET65 above ~3kHz with a more rounded 3.3kHz and stronger 2.4kHz peaks for less piercing quality with more Steely clarity. It also has less mid-bass for a more-scooped sound – like a Vet30 with a slightly deeper punch. I could see it complimenting the 5881 tube sound nicely for a bright, but velvety high end with a nice Steely quality and less low mid fluff with strong deep bass giving it a Soldano-like low end with a less-piercing/brittle high end. Part of the midranginess of the amp is probably the 5881 tubes, which compress more and have a sweeter upper-mid quality than a GLGGC when pushed. The Vet 30 has less high end than a V30 or the HM75, but doesn’t have the wide felt dust cap for that velvety Dumble/G12-65 high end.
The amp PSU might actually supply enough current for JJ or Shuguang KT66 tubes for bigger lows and an overall more-open sound than 5881’s – less power tube compression should make it more Dumblesk depending on the OT. The OT might be more “crisp” than in a Dumble’. A medium or long plate JJ 12ax7 in the PI position mayserve to sweeten the upper-mid crunch enough to counter that, or a Classictone OT and/or choke might produce better results if they aren’t installed as stock. A PI tube change is of course much easier and cheaper if it does it for you.
That’s how I’d proceed for a Dumbley sound, but it’s hard to say how it would really end up until you know the PSU capabilities and then try all those things in consort In either case, the Vet 30 won’t really be right for a Dumbley sound, but it may work well enough with the Midrange and Treble up and the amp section not driven too hard. The Presence knob opens up the high-end amp dynamics, so I’d probably keep it up pretty high with the Bright switches on and adjust the Mid and Treble accordingly. The Midrange knob really drives the amp section, so I’d keep it up pretty high if you want some amp dynamics when the Master Volume is up. The longer plate PI tubes will reduce harsh hash and increase power tube/OT dynamics at the same Master volume settings. I’d at least try both a medium and a long plate JJ 12ax7 from Eurotubes just to here how it changes the sound when the amp is pushed. Might be even more midrangey with the 5881, but more balanced and sweeter upper-mids with the JJ or Shuguang KT66.
